Tom ([info]anothersunrises) wrote,
@ 2006-03-30 09:28:00
Previous Entry  Add to memories!  Tell a Friend  Next Entry
Current mood: annoyed
Current music:Billie Jean - Michael Jackson

Clarification Time
At least this has to be addressed, b/c I do not appreciate this accusation.

Lessee...in response to Ro and her "lovely" little comment in chat this morning...No, I do not support rapists. I just don't support how you and many others treat other people. I think you bully them and act extremely cliquish. But I by no means, support a rapist.

This entire situation actually reminds me of the Lanny situation a few years back. I wouldn't stop talking to or being civil with him, b/c for a long while he had done nothing to me. That seemed to piss a lot of people off as well (including, go figure...mandy!) He did some horrible things too, as I recall. Until he started attacking me however, I did not hold him any ill will.

The internet is the internet. And I'm not going to judge someone unless they treat me badly. I can't be expected to judge people who I don't know. I will however, express my opinions freely and openly to people I consider "friends."

Vanessa feels that lj is a place where people comment to "pat each other on the back," "tell them they're loved," etc. Well, I don't feel that way. If someone says something I dislike, I call them out on it. If they say something I feel is wrong, I call them out on it. I'm not going to give someone a high five when they make a racist comment in my direction.

As a friend, I feel I do have the right to tell people when I think they are behaving in a manner that's inappropriate, or wrong, as the case may be. And they have the right to tell me the same. I'm not telling people they can't attack me right back, and more or less I've done a pretty good job of keeping up with the responces (given how many posts there have been about this particular issue, anyway).

I understand all too well that my views are not anyone else's. My opinion is obviously not the popular or wanted one. Be that as it may, it's mine, and I'm going to continue with going by what I feel is right.

If you have a problem with it, if you don't want to be friends with me anymore, hey, that's your call folks. I had fun times with all of you, and I still consider everyone a friend. But if you think this one incident (or repeated, in some cases, b/c I have had this argument with several of you before) is enough to end a good friendship, by all means.

One person already has taken me off their friend's list b/c of it. In her case, I find her to be rude, unreasonable, and downright insulting, so I particular don't mind her absence. However, the rest of you have more or less been cool with me over the years. It's your call, 'm cool either way.


(22 comments) - (Post a new comment)


[info]mandyly1977
2006-03-30 03:43 pm UTC (link)
Dude, I stopped reading when I saw the word "Lanny".

I don't care to discuss ANY of this crap ANY MORE WITH YOU. Drop it, FFS! You're so IMBA EMO!!!!

(Reply to this)


[info]mandyly1977
2006-03-30 03:54 pm UTC (link)
P.S. You're listening to Billy Jean and ADMIT IT?!?! LMFAOROFL

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]anothersunrises
2006-03-30 03:59 pm UTC (link)
Yes, that's the true sadness of it all. I've resorted to Michael Jackson music...talk about creepy...

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]thebadlady
2006-03-30 04:06 pm UTC (link)
Lovely little comment? Why do you need to be so condesending? If you want to stand up for a rapist, whatever, thats your gig. What have I done to you to make you be such a fucking dick to me? Piss off.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]anothersunrises
2006-03-30 04:38 pm UTC (link)
Please understand that our argument is about whether e-mails etc. are private. Like most decent, rational folks I consider rape a horrible crime and do not support or condone it. Please do not misunderstand my position as that of supporting a rapist.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]thebadlady
2006-03-30 04:48 pm UTC (link)
No, its not. You called my honesty into question. You said you doubted that he said any of what I said he said. Even though other people agreed on what he has said and done. What do you need, a notorized statement from him?

If you think emails and other electronic communications are private, then you have your head in the sand. ALL electronic communications can be called in for court cases. NO ONE has any resonable expectation of privacy on the internet.

All this other posturing on your part is inexplicable and just rudeness.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]anothersunrises
2006-03-30 05:10 pm UTC (link)
I said I doubted he would say things like "I like to send creepy e-mails" in anything but a manner of jest. I did not say that you were a liar. If he actually said that, then I apologize, b/c I personally would find it highly out there that anyone would make comments about that. On top of that, you were angry, and you already hate the guy, so there is the potential for bias. Again, if that's not the case, and he actually said all of those things, I apologize.

As for the privacy of e-mails, this is not a court room, it's an online journal community. I feel there is a difference. Maybe you do not feel the same, and maybe I am a little bit naive to think that it should be kept private. Personally I do not want my e-mails and PMs put in other people's lj's. Obviously my opinion differs greatly from many others.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]the_corbie
2006-03-30 09:17 pm UTC (link)
Tom, I don't know that I would want my PMs in other people's LJs either... but if I send an unsolicited PM to someone I don't know, and who has been less than friendly to me in the past, I've got to realise that could happen, right?

I'm not saying it's right, but nor am I saying it's wrong. I'm not judging. I'm just saying it's a foreseeable risk.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]the_corbie
2006-03-30 04:13 pm UTC (link)
Tom, it's cool. I don't think people are denying you the right to your opinion or anything.

Nor would I ever expect anyone to conform, or pressure them to do so. We're all pretty tough-minded people, I think. :)

On the other hand, here are two points to consider:

1. Is it OK to judge people positively on the same basis? ie, you've never met them, they've never done anything particularly nice to you personally, but your friends like them and have had positive experiences with them, and that's good enough for you?

(I mean, I've never met you and had limited contact with you at Ran's and here, but given the mutual friends we have and knowing something about how you've interacted with them, I have a pretty positive impression of you.)

2. If you have witnessed someone behaving badly, even if it is not towards you, is it OK to judge them then? Because I have (independently) witnessed Frosty, for example, behaving inappropriately on the board to many people.

As for 'bullying', well, I understand there is sometimes a fine line between supporting your friends when they have a conflict with someone, and bullying: and that a lot of it depends on perception, and which side you're on. Similarly, there is a fine line between a group of friends and a clique.

However, I don't feel there has been any bullying here. And I don't feel there is a clique. This is a very open and welcoming group. New people are positively included and encouraged to become part of it, and by and large its members are very non-judgemental. And importantly, most of us are pretty good at revisiting judgements we do make, and giving people a second chance. (I could give examples... but that would be stirring up things better left alone.)

It's all good, though. :)

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]anothersunrises
2006-03-30 04:54 pm UTC (link)
I dont expect anyone to conform. I was just speaking my mind...I honestly didn't think it'd end up turning into what it has, with so many people angry and all that. In responce to your 2 questions.

1) Honestly, I don't tend to take much credence (sp?) into what my friends say about people I don't know. I don't let their judgements, positive or negative, affect my opinion of them. I tend to think doing so biases other people, and limits the possibility of the two sides ever coming to resolution. Maybe through interaction I'd find a similar dislike or like for them, but until then I try to withhold judgement.

It's not even that you need a ton of interaction either, just some experiences. Like I have a similarly positive impression of you, tho we've only talked through lj or the boards on very rare occasions. But if someone else had told me you were an asshole and I should avoid you, or even if they said you were cool, I wouldn't keep it in mind.

2) I think if you witness someone behaving badly, then you have a right to form an opinion on the situation. Perhaps through conversation with the person you saw, you might find out things aren't what they seem, or they may even be worse. But I do think you can formulate an opinion through what you see via actions.

______________

My thought is that overall it is a welcome group of people. But if you get on someone's bad side, all of a sudden a whole group of people come to their side. And in a lot of cases it's the exact same people, whether they are involved in an argument or not. This particular situation aside (I realize my view is not popular, nor do I think it's just a clique-like sentiment against me), I think there are other situations where people are ganged up on, and I think it's unfortunate. It's merely an opinion, but one I feel pretty much is true.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]eefster
2006-03-30 04:24 pm UTC (link)
I think another user* said it best in the other thread when she said "You do realize that not all of agreed with her on this right? We just didn't beat her down about and act like an ass. YMMV"

Express yourself 'freely and openly'. Just don't be surprised that your chosen tone and high-handedness puts people not on your side -- including some of those who've agreed with you, at least in part. In fact, I for one found you also 'rude, unreasonable, and downright insulting' on this issue. I might disagree with your stance re: the point where unease trumps privacy, but I'd've had a lot more time for you had you not come in all guns blazing on a quest to apparently enlighten the cruel, vicious masses through profanity and condescension. (And no, telling people to 'grow the hell up' won't generally help either.)

*name withheld because that thread is filtered and this entry is not. If you don't know the person/post I mean, let me know and I'll get it to you some other way.

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]anothersunrises
2006-03-30 04:59 pm UTC (link)
Other than the YMMV part, I got the message, yes.

I don't expect people to agree with me, or necessarily take my side. I'm responsible for my own comments and I have no problem with the fact that people disagree with them.

Was it rude? I don't think all of it was, but yes, I have had moments over the past 24 hours where I have been less than civil myself. I'm well aware things could have been more civil had I not attacked so strongly at first. I do apologize for those instances. But at the time I felt that was the best method to voice my opinion. I won't fault anyone for taking offense to that particular tone.

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]eefster
2006-03-30 05:07 pm UTC (link)
"Your mileage may vary."

Or did you mean something else by not getting the YMMV message?

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]anothersunrises
2006-03-30 05:30 pm UTC (link)
Well, I got the acronym, but I guess I don't understand it in the context of the sentence? she was saying no one else treated her like an ass, but my mileage may vary? o.o;

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]eefster
2006-03-30 05:35 pm UTC (link)
The way I read it was that she was expressing the opinion that although she agreed with you (or at least didn't agree with the posting), you acted like an ass. However, you may have thought your behaviour was unexceptionable.
Alternatively, she felt that she could express her disagreement without acting in such a way as to be called an ass, but perhaps you felt it was necessary.

That sort of thing.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]luminashadow
2006-03-30 09:14 pm UTC (link)
Miscommunication is so awesome, ain't it?

(Reply to this)


[info]pinkbananasplit
2006-03-31 12:12 am UTC (link)
Dude, I'm sorry, but the entire situation has absolutely nothing to do with you. And I really don't think you're in any place to critize Ro and/or Mandy. So I'd advise dropping it. Because you are getting wayyyyyyyy too worked up over something on teh intarwebz. This cannot be at all healthy.

(Reply to this)


[info]guppyur
2006-03-31 06:30 am UTC (link)
Image Hosted by ImageShack.us

(Reply to this) (Thread)

[info]the_corbie
2006-03-31 08:09 am UTC (link)
LOL

Ini, that's a new one on me, but I love it. :p

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]guppyur
2006-03-31 12:31 pm UTC (link)
Heh, glad you liked it. I think I've used it before... I'm not at home, so I had to draw on what I already had in my ImageShack account.

(Reply to this) (Parent)

[info]thesagebean
2006-04-01 03:19 am UTC (link)
hahahaha I totally second this. wtf is going on? O.o

(Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

[info]mandyly1977
2006-04-01 05:59 am UTC (link)
You, unlike the above poster, ARE on my f-list, so you should see it :p

(Reply to this) (Parent)

(22 comments) - (Post a new comment)

Create an Account
Forgot your login or password?
Login w/ OpenID
English • Español • Deutsch • Русский…